guardians_song ([info]guardians_song) wrote,
@ 2009-10-01 16:06:00
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Entry tags:fandom cliches, parody

Regarding Snape/Hermione fanfiction: (semi-friendly drinking game)
*Take a drink for every time Hermione is an idealized little scholar instead of having her canon flaws. (Not asking for them to be blown up to HBP or DH levels, but she does get emotional...)
*Down a whole can of your beverage of choice whenever Hermione's virginity becomes a plot point.
**Take an additional drink for every time it's mentioned that it was a plot point.
*Take a sip whenever Marauders are bitched about.
**Take a drink if the claims go beyond things reasonably derived from canon. (Throwing this in just in case, though I don't think that in the particular fanfiction I read, this was an issue...)
*Take a sip whenever Dumbledore is bitched about.
**Take a drink if the claims go beyond things reasonably derived from canon. (Such as manipulations based around a prophecy about Hermione and Snape.)
*Down a whole can of your beverage of choice whenever Harry is less important to incapacitating Voldemort than Snape and Hermione. (Everyone knows Voldemort should be more important to incapacitating Voldemort than Harry. Silly authors.)
*Down a whole can of your beverage of choice whenever a non-canon prophecy glorifying Snape and Hermione is mentioned.
*Take a drink every time Ron Weasley is poked at by the author.
*Take a drink every time fanon magic comes up that blows out of the water anything the canon English Wizarding World can do, ha ha, aren't those isolated English wizards losers.
*Take a drink every time American wizards are so much more awesome than British wizards.
*Take a drink every time someone raves about how awesome Snape and Hermione are together.
*Take a drink every time someone raves about how awesome Snape and Hermione's children will be.
*Take a drink every time Harry and Ron are reduced to Good-Hearted Dimwit #1 and Good-Hearted Dimwit #2.
*Take a drink every time Snape and Hermione are the only canon characters who are totally awesome in a battle.
*Take a drink every time the author's OCs are more awesome than any canon characters save Snape and Hermione.
*Take a drink every time a ritual with an overdramatic name is inserted into the story for non-comedic purposes.
*Take a sip every time someone points out neither of the couple are all that good-looking (or, at least, have the Hair From Heck) and cheer the author for not falling into the trap of Sueing them.
*If you should come upon one of those fanfictions, down a whole can of your beverage of choice and grab a spork every time someone gushes about how hot Snape and Hermione are.

That aside, the ten or so chapters I read of Looking For Magic (115 chapters?! Holy ****!) WERE very good, just... I am annoyed easily by certain things in fanfiction. :D;; (As I said, this is a semi-friendly drinking game. This list would have been a lot longer and less pleasant if I hadn't enjoyed what of the fic I read... Obviously, this being a drinking game, it's weighted towards a snarky view.)


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[info]subieko
2009-10-02 02:03 am UTC (link)
*Down a whole can of your beverage of choice whenever a non-canon prophecy is mentioned.

I know you dislike prophecies, but considering that in canon there is an entire big room filled with them...I don't think having prophecies that aren't canon is that horrible. Prophecies clearly exist and are categorized regularly. They aren't always nice and accurate, but they do exist. Of course, Dumbledore tells us that plenty of prophecies don't come true, which would be an interesting angle to explore in fanfic--the whole story, the characters are desperately trying to prevent/fulfill a prophecy, and then it just turns out it doesn't happen for some stupid reason, like the weather or something. But it's more normal for stories to be written when something does happen rather than when it doesn't.

In general, I dislike when other characters rave on and on about how great the author's OTP are together. I mean...that usually doesn't happen in real life unless one or both of the people dies. At least, not that I've seen. Complaining about couples seems more common...

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[info]guardians_song
2009-10-02 05:11 am UTC (link)
Okay, that was kind of stupid of me... amended to have it say what I meant in context. :D;; The gripe was not specifically prophecies so much as SNAPE AND HERMIONE WILL SAVE US ALL!!!-(who's Harry Potter? Never heard of him)-prophecies. My goof...

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[info]subieko
2009-10-02 02:24 pm UTC (link)
Well, when it's prophecies about Voldemort specifically...yeah, it's kind of odd to have some sort of OH BY THE WAY SUDDENLY HARRY IS NOT NECESSARY thing. Because canon quite clearly says that the prophecy itself is not important--it's what Voldemort believes that's important, and he's devoted a lot of time and energy to killing Harry. So I think he wouldn't give up on that. He's kind of an idiot that way...

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[info]indongcho
2009-10-02 05:38 am UTC (link)
Hmmm...I certainly cannot deny that those cliches are in Hermione/Snape stories all the freaking time.

Oh, for the awesome in battle point- Hermione is not awesome in battle in Looking for Magic, if I remember correctly. After all she's had no training in ages and has been spending the past year working like mad on research.

I have to admit, part of the reason I'm not bothered by the uncanonical aspects of Looking for Magic is that I just don't have enough respect for HP canon. The magic system makes so little sense- how many rules could we realistically pull out of HP? So much of it just feels like it's being pulled out of a hat to me.... so I do not mind Looking for Magic's extensive magical details at all. Plus the combination of magic and science shown is very interesting. And I'm a sucker for a research romance ^^;

I do wonder where the virginity plot point was first conceived in HGSS fanfiction....

The only part of Looking for Magic which I really can't stand is that the only gay character is really typically flamboyant *spazzflails*

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TL;DR - I have way too much fun trying to analyze HP's magic system...
[info]guardians_song
2009-10-02 07:22 am UTC (link)
*scratches head* Okay, I take that back. I was kind of taking all their Potions coming in super-handy in battle as being 'awesome in battle by proxy', since I read the first few chapters, then skipped to the last few, and only read the testimonials as far as seeing how the battle went - and, in the testimonials, it was all about 'OMG THEIR UBER-HEALING POTION SAVED LIVES' and 'Yes, Voldemort was brought down by the Happy-Sleepy Potion' and so on. Sure, there was battling described, but the main abilites on the good guys' side that stood out were the Native American super-Patroni and Snape and Hermione's game-breaking Potions. So...sorry, that's what I meant. :D;; (I would have read more, but... have a lot of homework. :D;;)

I can understand the basic reasoning behind the virginity plot point - virgins and losing one's virginity are stereotyped as being Really Important Things, and JKR's magic system basically has anything JKR thinks is cool possible as an important factor, so people figure hey, Hermione's probably a virgin, Snape probably knows ALL the weird details about Potions and certain types of magic, so it stands to reason that he could figure out a way to use her virginity to their advantage. ...Er, by a certain definition of "reason"...

The magic system makes so little sense- how many rules could we realistically pull out of HP? So much of it just feels like it's being pulled out of a hat to me....
I always figured it was a seesaw between emotion-based magic and finesse. See, emotion-based magic is all the roughly-emotional-intent-based, great-power-in-times-of-desperate-need, and so on and so forth magic - Lily's sacrifice-protection, young children's accidental magic, Molly's power-up versus Bellatrix after Fred's death, and the Cruciatus, to name just a few examples. Finesse is what counts in Potions, the Imperius (at Mr. Crouch-or-Rosemerta-controlling levels of expertise, not the essentially-superpowered-with-verbal-commands-unneeded-Confundus that Harry's inexpert Imperius acts as), special magic techniques (like the ones Dumbledore and Voldemort flaunt in battle [or, to a lesser extent, Snape and McGonagall]), older children's not-so-accidental magic, and so on.

If you're a super-genius like Dumbledore, you can carry the day on finesse alone (and, probably, a decent amount of innate power... but mostly finesse). If your name is Ariana, *BOOMFLAIL*ing would probably destroy any opponent who didn't dodge fast enough, despite your utter lack of finesse. (I think this is what Aberforth means when he mentions his mother wasn't as young as she used to be - Kendra's reflexes were slower than they once were, and she was unable to dodge. Even considering that Kendra likely had Shield Charms up all the time [otherwise it wouldn't have made a whit of difference how young she was, someone who can blow up a house can blow YOU up easily], since she DID get killed, Ariana probably had gotten to the point where one hit could pulverize a Shield Charm and go on through], so dodging still would have been the important factor...) However, if you've got BOTH emotion to drive the magic AND some finesse, you'll seem to be Mr. or Ms. Uber-Wizard/Uber-Witch. Hence Snape (finesse-based, but with emotional power too), Gellert (probably[*] deriving his ability from a combination of emotional extremes and finesse), Sirius, Fred, George, etc. Voldemort also falls under this category, as (possibly because his wild magic variant concentrates on control) he has a surprising level of finesse for someone who acts more like an extremely powerful, very young child with mental health issues than the cold, intimidating Dark Lord of fanon.

[*] Given that Albus states that he was better than Gellert at wandwork and that Gellert's apparently emotional enough to think that Cruciating someone to settle an argument is a brilliant idea, I feel justified in placing Gellert's finesse slightly below Albus's... plus he seems to fall under the same general pattern as Sirius, Fred, and George (gleeful geniuses with sadistic tendencies and an apparent inability to precisely grasp the consequences of their actions).

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In summary of the previous post - the canon Lord-and-near-Lord-levels tend to be unstable.
[info]guardians_song
2009-10-02 07:25 am UTC (link)
[Continued from subject line - '...Which may explain a lot about the canon world.']

Unfortunately, the downside is that the Purebloods may not be so much "crazy" as "crazy like a fox" with their inbreeding - mentally unstable wizards with enough intelligence to be trainable, due to their sheer emotional instability powering emotion-based magic like heck, outperform just about everyone but the most brilliant scholars (Albus, Snape, possibly Hermione). Morfin-levels of inbreeding, obviously, are overdoing it, but even Crabbe turned out to be a secret idiot-savant, conjuring magic powerful enough to destroy a Horcrux at seventeen or eighteen. (So he forgot the counter-charm. I'm sure that happens to a lot of Dark wizards, seeing as how, for even-slightly-mentally-unstable wizards and witches, "Got Careless" is the Number #1 cause of death in the Potterverse. Considering that the Fiendfyre didn't eat him IMMEDIATELY, it certainly makes him more competent than Voldemort...) All things considered, there may be an embarrassing in-universe reason for why the Wizarding World consistently seems to be run by idiots.

It probably helps that the specific kind of instability resulting in powerful emotion-based magic seems to cause a feedback loop allowing extraordinary insight into magical techniques, resulting in a finesse boost... (Tom was the most brilliant student at Hogwarts in his day, Gellert was a genius, Sirius was an Animagus at ~15, Fred and George come up with all sorts of [admittedly prank-focused] magical items, etc.) So, in other words - effective magical power ~= innate magical power x (insanity + intelligence) or something in Rowling-canon. :D;; [That's being optimistic. In reality, due to the possible magical feedback, the insanity probably has a far greater weight on it than intelligence... maybe the intelligence factor is a constant plus an exponential function of intelligence times some very small constant, such that it shoots up when intelligence is sufficiently high, but doesn't make much of a difference otherwise.]

Uh... where was I? 8D;; I admit that I didn't like the numerology part, because the numbers assigned seemed so... arbitrary. (For one, I wonder what happens if you use a number system in Base 60 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexagesimal), Base 16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexadecimal), or Base 2... Rather mucks with the "add digits together" part.) However, the general system was cool. And yes, research romances are awesome. :D As I said, I didn't read that much due to homework, but have it bookmarked for later.

"The only part of Looking for Magic which I really can't stand is that the only gay character is really typically flamboyant *spazzflails*"
Really? Huh. Which one is he?

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Re: In summary of the previous post - the canon Lord-and-near-Lord-levels tend to be unstable.
[info]indongcho
2009-10-02 11:55 pm UTC (link)
Thinking about it more, what annoys me most about canon not having a structured, explained system is that...well, they're at a magic school! They should be learning theory and how does this work and why and all of that stuff! This isn't an anime or something, where it's quite normal to go without a fully explained system.

But I will say, your theories and attempts to bind it all together into one system are very interesting. And actually match with what HP shows. You may call it wank, but I think one has to get somewhat wanky to pull a firm system out of HP.

Oh, the gay character is Warren. He's in Hermione's group for a development project...he's not a bad character, per se, but as he's the only gay character and is rather stereotypical...that's when I start getting annoyed.

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[info]sue_hunting_duo
2009-10-04 09:20 pm UTC (link)
If you happen to like research romance, and have nothing against the SS/Hr pairing, then you'd probably like "Ordinary People" by Hayseed:
http://www.fictionalley.org/authors/hayseed/OP01.html

I enjoy the magic/science combination too, and reading this fic felt like eating a whole bag of Christmas sweets without any after-effects. And, as far as I remember, it contains next to none of the things guardians_song mentioned in her excellent drinking game :D

*waves shyly* Hi! This is my first comment on this journal. I just dropped in after a wild chase through various forums and the thread looked interesting.

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[info]indongcho
2009-10-04 09:29 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for the rec, but I've already read it. It's one of my favorites ^^ I think it's also a plus for handling a teacher/student romance while they're both still at school in a decent manner. And I just...blood magic... *glomps story* ^^;

If more HGSS fandom was like this, I'd be a very happy reader.

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[info]sue_hunting_duo
2009-10-06 05:42 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I highly suspected that everyone who isn't me have probably read that one already V_V Still, I couldn't refuse pimping it a little, because if, somehow, there happened to be this one person reading this thread who somehow hadn't read the story, then it would still be worth it :)
And I really loved how the story accentuated the importance of blood magic. I remember that HBP had Dumbledore talking disparagingly about blood magic, which irked me, because blood magic has always been a powerful theme in folklore. Thus, I was happy to find a story which showed that it was important for a reason. And although magic/science stories are almost exclusively well-written pieces (because inventing and describing one's own scientific theory requires some effort, and if the author is willing to invest effort into that, chances are that they won't simply skate over everything else), they seem to be even harder to find than decent SS/Hr. It seems that there just isn't enough of both, so if you know any titles worth recommending, please do tell. I'd be a happy bunny :)

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[info]harpsi_fizz
2009-10-02 11:13 am UTC (link)
Man, I used to hate the hell out of Snape/Hermione. Now I tolerate it pretty well- though I'd never actually read a fic about it. Not really.

I don't get it! Why is it always Harry/Someone or Hermione/Someone while the only person Ron gets shucked with is Hermione? Every. Fucking. Time.

I don't get it! Explain! Please!

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[info]indongcho
2009-10-02 11:48 pm UTC (link)
Er...I saw a HGSS fic where Ron ended up with Draco. So...not every single time? There was also one where he was paired with...I forgot, I think Susan Bones?

I think part of it might be that Rowling kind of delegated Ron to goofy sidekick, so fans don't like him. I must admit that I tend to only like a Ron whose good traits are extrapolated on by the author- Sacrifices Arc Ron kicks ass with his chessmaster skills, even if he doesn't play a large part in the series.

So, R/Hr or death? Not a fan? *is curious*

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[info]harpsi_fizz
2009-10-03 12:05 am UTC (link)
Not at all a fan. The first time I read the books, I was like "Oh God... oh, God, she's going to be cliche and put those two together, isn't she? Oh, fuuuuck..." And from there on in, I felt as though I was pounded over the head with R/Hr.

I mean, the thing that drove me bonkers was that they had nothing in common as far as interests went and that there is no way in hell they would be even remotely compatible in real life. What do they talk about after Harry and Hogwarts? If I were given one common interest, I'd accept it. I honestly would. Now, some fan tried to palm this one- "They both hate Voldemort". Rather than watch my blood trickle from my ear with that one, I'll move on to my next point- the fans.

I hate to say it, but I also learned to hate R/Hr after watching how the R/Hr fans behaved. I tired to get answers from them as to why I ought to like the pairing (for I didn't want to hate it!) and all I got back was a endless stream of "It's so obvious!" and "Go re-read!" did not tell me what the appeal of that couple was other than "Hurp durp, I too stupud tuh think so I just like cuz it gon happen hurp durp".

Then there was the cruelty. Watching them bully with their fingers in their ears and make fun of the H/Hr shippers who were clearly just the underdogs and the shat on made me sick. Watching them try to paint all H/Hr shippers as stupid for liking what they liked, taking uncalled for pot-shots and just behaving like assholes made me really hate the pairing. Especially on JournalFen.

So the fans plus how unrealistic it was, plus the lack of variety, plus having it shoved in my face at every turn has got me literally saying Death Please. I'd rather Ron, my favorite character of all time, die than have to sit through R/Hr.

And yet I find solace in Hugo, whom I am planning on torturing. No offense, by the way, if you are an R/Hr fan. I know on a practical level that not all of the fans are unreasonable or stupid, but it always gets in my mind just a bit. Like... a tiiiny sand grain sized idea of it.

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[info]indongcho
2009-10-03 12:19 am UTC (link)
I'm hardly offended- my reaction to your comments is a resounding, "Yes, yes, yes!". Nothing in common to talk about and general incompatibility is exactly why I despise the pairing. And then consider how many times they've argued so badly that they won't talk to each other at all...oogh, I feel sorry for their children.

They actually...often actively dislike the other's interest. Hermione likes watching Quidditch but thinks that talking about it for ages is stupid (Wonky Feint, anyone?), though Ron likes to do just that. Ron thinks she's mad for studying so much and spends most of the series laughing about her plans for better treatment for magical creatures...

And it's not even a case of chemistry when they argue! A bickering romance needs to show some underlying enjoyment of the bickering- Ron and Hermione just get miserable and angry as hell when they fight.

So I kind of feel like glomping you for saying all that, actually ^^;

Planning on torturing Hugo? *is interested*

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[info]harpsi_fizz
2009-10-03 12:46 am UTC (link)
I feel like glomping right back. We must friend one-another, for I don't know many R/HR haters.

Yes, torturing Hugo. Drew a picture of him with a friend once and decided that I rather like the clueless idiot. Planning on a series called "Hugo Weasley's Diary" in which we see life through poor Hugo's eyes. He's so confused as to why daddy and Mr. Malfoy often visit with one-another at home and why they fish but never catch anything.

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(Anonymous)
2009-10-03 07:52 pm UTC (link)
My god, you're so clever. You have to be the first slasher ever to think of ripping off Brokeback Mountain! How do you do it! I've never known of anyone with such creative genius before.

Seriously - do you never read fic? Do you know nothing about fandom? Sorry to say, not only is the Brokeback Moutntain thing played out (it was five years ago) but most of us got over the whole slash vs. het thing around 2003. In fact, most people I know ship both slash and het and yes, this does include many, many OBHWF shippers.

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[info]night_train_fm
2009-10-04 11:25 am UTC (link)
'Actively dislike' is pushing it; the only things I remember Ron laughing at are Hermione's poor choice in acronyms and rather flawed tactics (her plan in OotP apparently began and ended with tricking them into picking up clothes and losing their place in society). Nor do I remember them being 'miserable and angry' whenever they bicker.

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(Anonymous)
2009-10-03 07:44 pm UTC (link)
How is it possible to be so ridiculously butthurt over a children's book? And H/Hr shippers dominated fandom up until GoF, I don't know where you're getting your information from.

Also, hate to burst your deluded bubble, but F_W isn't made up of R/Hr shippers. There's a solid minority of R/Hr shippers that show up for the wank, sure but H/Hr people were deluded enough to compare their ship to being enslaved, compared it to aborting girls in China and rant about how Ginny is a slut and Ron an abuser so everyone - Slytherfen, H/D shippers, OBWHF shippers and people who didn't read the books - wound up mocking them for being so deeply entitled and insane.

And considering some of the things H/Hr shippers did like hounding the people behind Gryffindor Tower until they closed their doors, Cassie Clare's shenanigans (she shipped H/Hr as well as H/D) and the Ms. Scribe saga, I think some R/Hr fans earned the right to be pissed.

There's a very good reason everyone in fandom mocks the crazy H/Hr shippers (not to be confused with the sane shippers of that pairing). The reason? They were fucking insane.

You might want to brush up on your fannish history (http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/Main_Page) before you talk out of your ass.

I tired to get answers from them as to why I ought to like the pairing (for I didn't want to hate it!)

Why do you need someone to convince you to like a pairing? You either do or you don't. That just sounds like passive-aggressive shit-stirring to me. I don't buy Snape/Hermione because I've never seen a reason as to why Hermione would like him. He's one of the smartest, if not the smartest, character in the books, sure. But when has Hermione ever shown an interest in smart guys? Hermione said at the start that there are more important things to her than books and cleverness. (Given the Lily/Hermione parallels I could squint and see why Snape might like Hermione.)

Still, I wouldn't go trolling the Snermione people and demand them explain their ship to me and get annoyed when their explanations don't work. It's like asking someone why they choose a certain color as their favorite and getting huffy when the answers don't make sense - it's personal and subjective and something you either feel or you don't. I don't know how you got to be a grown adult without understanding that.

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[info]harpsi_fizz
2009-10-03 07:56 pm UTC (link)
Photobucket

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[info]night_train_fm
2009-10-04 11:07 am UTC (link)
Mmm. Great tactic - just ignore anyone who disagrees with you. Saves you all the effort of ever trying to actually justify your opinions.

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[info]harpsi_fizz
2009-10-04 11:23 am UTC (link)
If you had a point at all and wanted to discuss it or even argue it out properly, you could have copy-pasted and then found a way to privately messaged me. What you did was get mad and throw a fit on impulse. Therefore, you aren't worth my time. Next time think before you speak.

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[info]night_train_fm
2009-10-04 12:19 pm UTC (link)
FWIW, that wasn't even me. I just found the GIF kinda nauseating / irritating (not to mention all the 'o noes, H/Hr fans are such victims).

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[info]harpsi_fizz
2009-10-04 12:22 pm UTC (link)
I'm sure.
Didn't realize I was an H/Hr fan.

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[info]night_train_fm
2009-10-04 12:29 pm UTC (link)
Didn't realise I said you were.

'the H/Hr shippers who were clearly just the underdogs and the shat on'

Your (hilariously melodramatic) words, not mine.

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[info]harpsi_fizz
2009-10-04 12:42 pm UTC (link)
If you're going to continue baiting and poking (or even have a proper discussion), you're going to have to get me on private messaging where you won't be trolling just for the sake of spectacle. If you don't want to, that's fine, but more than three comments is enough trolling someone else's journal.

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